I tried Mamta's turnip & garlic bhaji last night. I used little turnips that are called 'navets' in French. Thye just wouldn't become sweet, even after I kept on adding water to keep cooking them.

The odd thing is that I use these in couscous, and they do become sweet. But that's a long-cooking dish.

Is there any specific kind of turnip I should be using?

Phil

Sorry Phil can't answer that one and I think Mamta is struggling to get on line at moment.

Steve

Yes, she's not got internet, but should be back in a week or two, if we can sort. x x x

There's a long white turnip on sale down here, which I might try. Can't recall what it's called in French. My brother says it's called 'mooli' in Japanese.

It's daikon in Japanese, mooli in hindi.

It's a type of radish, I believe, but huge like a giant carrot.

can confirm what Kavey has said, its used all over S Asia.

Thanks. Not really clear on the radish/parsnip/turnip distinctions.

parsnips are in the same family as carrots (and many spices like coriander, cumin, hing and fennel). Turnip and radish/mooli are of the cabbage family, and include kohl rabi. Swede (orange) is Swedish turnip.

Turnips are used in a few Kashmiri dishes, especially those from Persia, and often cooked for many hours with lamb (goat), even overnight.

Thanks, Lapis, but I'm still baffled.

I can see that parsnips and carots could be in the same family of root vegetables, but I can't see how they can be in the same family as coriander, which isn't a root vegetable.

Turnips in the brassica family? Beats me!

I think that the little turnips the French call 'navets' are swedes, but I don't understand your use of '(orange)' in this context: they're pinkish/purple on top, white underneath, and white inside.

I've never understood whether Linnean botanical taxonomy is just one way of classifying (based on sex, right?), or whether it actually captures real categories in the natural world.

Phil

UK turnips (Brassica rapa) look like giant radishes to me - white where they were in the ground, and purple-pink at the top where they caught the sun.

What we call a swede (Brassica napus) is also known as a rutabaga (especially in the US), the word comes from the Swedish word rotabagge (I love wikipedia) and I guess that connection to Sweden is why we call it a swede in England and many other English-speaking countries. The Americans also occasionally use Swedish turnip or yellow turnip to describe the same plant and, just to make it really confusing, the Irish call it a turnip and the Scots a neep. To me, it does look awfully like a turnip, just bigger and rougher skinned and sometimes with the more yellowy colour tinge.

Daikon/ Mooli (also known as Japanese radish, Oriental radish and white radish) is in the Brassicaceae family, but in the Genus called Raphanus, so related to the turnips and swedes (in the Brassica Genus), but not as closely as they are to each other. I am most familiar with long narrow ones, sort of giant carrot shape, but they come in rounded shapes too.

The small pink/white radishes we grow in Europe are, from what I can see, exactly the same family, genus and species as the daikon but simply different varieties, with different shapes, sizes and characteristics. I had thought they were different species, but it appears both are Raphanus sativus.

Parsnips (Pastinaca sativa) look like creamy yellow carrots, and of course, whilst we've grown most used to orange carrots, they also come in white, yellow, purple, red... Carrots are classified as Daucus carota.

And yes, Coriander is indeed in the same family as both carrots and parsnips, that is Apiaceae, though they are each a different genus. That means that coriander's not as close a relation to the parsnip or carrot as they are to each other, but all three are from the broader family of plants. I have never seen the root, though I googled and the only pictures I could find were smaller and skinnier in shape than carrots and parsnips.

French navet is brassica rapa, therefore it's an English turnip.

Thanks, Kavita.

Phew!

I've understood the purple-pink while in the sun thing. I think that they roughly resemble radishes.

Still don't see the cabbage-turnip connection.

I'm Scottish, and have always thought that 'neep' is related to the 'nip' bit of 'turnip'.

I consulted a root vegetable site, and the things shown there as swedes look exactly the same as what are called 'navet's, at least down here: folk names for things in the natural world are notoriously unreliable. People here mostly don't distinguish calamar (squid) from cuttlefish, for instance.

Cabbage is just one brassicae, it's an enormous family... I guess all down to evolution and genetic similiarty of plants, despite their outward appearances to us non-scientists?

Yes, common names very confusing indeed.

Especially for swede/ turnip/ radish!!!

I am not sure why your small trunips did not taste sweet...ish when cooked. I can't asnwer that one. Fresh ones cook very quickly. Slightly more mature ones take a bit longer, but they cook fine and taste sweet. I make curries with gravy in a pressure cooker, just for a couple of minutes.

If you think of the taste of Kohl Rabi, which is a brassica, it tastes almost like a turnip and you can understand why turnip is a brassica, apart from scientific reasons. Both have leaves which are similar in taste (yes I do add leaves to turnip bhaji).

Daikon/Mooli taste quite different, Mooli is a Hindi word for Radish and generally means long white ones. I have grown the small, round, white ones this year, but they don't seem to have mush of a flavour, not mooli like at all.

Thanks, Mamta. I'll try the long white things.

I tried the long white ones. No better. I give up! Remaining turnips in couscous now.

Phil

Long white ones are not turnips, they are moolies, completely different in taste from turnips.

when 'turnips - long white ones' were mentioned I thought "parsnips" ?

http://www.worldcommunitycookbook.org/season/guide/parsnips.html

Steve

look at their leaves. Turnip leaves look cabbage-like, carrot leaves look like cumin and bolting coriander.

Don't forget, what we see today has taken mankind thousands of years to perfect. Aubergine today probably evolved from tiny fruit, much like deadly nightshade, which are in the same family. One is toxic, and not cultivated, the other highly desirable, and highly cultivated, so highly developed. I still buy the tiny aubergine, called pea aubergine, for Thai cooking, but these may be more appropriate in dishes such as dhansak. These were indigenous to Europe and the Middle East, not imports from Central/South America.

I never see turnip leaves, which might have helped.

I take the point re carrot leaves, however.

I've given up on turnip bhaji, having tried the long white things, which the lady in the local ?picerie insists is not a radish, but a 'long turnip'.

the tops of turnips are used as 'saag' around here.

The mooli (daikon) is definitely of the radish family. I've seen a maroon variety, and the similarity with the small round radish is even more striking.

If the lady in the shop is adamant, I'd leave it there, and make a mental note that her knowledge is suspect. It happens. I've often seen coriander and flat leaved parsley confused by people.

Well, I've learned something here.

Yes, the lady in the shop is best not challenged.

I can see why people visually confuse coriander and flat-leaf parsley, but the scent is surely distinct in coriander, and parsley usually has thicker leaves.

I've never accepted Madhur Jaffrey's view that parsley can be a substitute for coriander leaf.

maybe she is saying that those who dislike the intense flavour of coriander can replace it with parsley. It seems to be a 'Marmite' flavour, either love or hate it. Maybe celery would be an alternative, same family!! Or angelica or even Alexanders, all umbelliferae.

Kohl Rabi was mentioned in this thread. It is coming up nicely in my garden, did cook a curry out of it. But threw away its leaves as it tasted a bit bitterish.

I think of celery as as quite distinct from coriander or parsley in taste.

quite, but if one didn't like coriander, substituting with something too similar is pointless!

Well, I guess so, but what's the point in substitution, then?

if people wanted a herb flavour, or a bit of greenery; the ubiquitous coriander leaf sprinkle comes to mind. Most 'net Indian recipes have the coriander leaf (and gm) sprinkles now. I would agree that there is very little substitutes in Indian cooking for flavours; maybe cassia/cinnamon, brown cardamon/grains of paradise, long pepper/black pepper, but very few. I wouldn't sub fennel with aniseed, even.

I would sub fennel with star anise though if struggling...

Steve

Not sure I agree with you there, Steve.

I'm with Lapis on this. Yeah, cassia for cinnamon, perhaps (no idea about those other things you mention, Lapis), but not much more than that.

Phil