What do you all think of Pat Chapman's recipes? I was considering buying one of his books, however, I've been told by a few people that a majority of his recipes are really horrible.
Hello AJW
I haven't seen this book, so can't comment. Hope someone else here has it.
Best wishes
Mamta
Hi Mamta, in fact there are many Pat Chapman cookery books available. I was just wondering what others though of his recipes before I decide to spend money on one of his books.
If you google Pat Chapman Mamta you'll find his website at the top of the list (in you're interested).
AJW
From what I understaand Pat Chapman specialises in British-curry-house-style curries. Mum (Mamta) specialises in the kind of recipes Indians cook and eat at home.
There are a few recipes here that are more like what you'd find in restaurants, but vast majority are home-cooking, which is a little different to what the standard British curry house serves.
Perhaps some readers here may have experience of Pat Chapman's book.
If not I'd recommend posting on the BBC Food Chat board, as I have a feeling his books may have been discussed there.
I don't like Indian restaurant curries so you've just answered my question, thanks. Proper Indian food is my favourite cusine but the rubbish that's served in restaurants I hate.
AJW
I wouldn't take my comments as gospel as I've never seen any of his books.
I'm simply recalling, to the best of my memory, the mentions of him on BBC Food Chat board. I'll see if I can find a link. OK here are some:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfood/F2670471?thread=6003107
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfood/F2670471?thread=3871693
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfood/F2670471?thread=3649058
:)
Thanks for the links, I'll tread with caution because I want to avoid the restaurant stuff. I might see if I can borrow one of his books from someone, I'm sure I know someone who has the vegetable curry bible.
Sorry to disagree here.
I like tousands of others thoroughly enjoy a BIR meal which Pat Chapman's books attempt to replicate.
There are many site worth looking at dedicated to BIR cooking and trying to replicate the BIR taste and smeel associated with this style of Indian cooking.
To say to food is not good is not helpful.
Otherwize why would the CTM be classed as the all time favourite it is?
There's a place for every style, Mamta's is superb home style cooking but so are BIR styles such as Pat Chapman's books that try to emulate them. Incidentally I'm not a particular fan of his books prefering others and internet sites such as www.cr0.co.uk/curry that are available.
TC
Er.... WHERE has anyone claimed Pat Chapman's recipes or food is not good???
The original poster wanted some information about the recipe books, including what kind of recipes they covered. That has been provided without any negative comment.
I've re-read all the posts in this thread and can't see any hint of criticism of either Pat Chapman's food, his recipes/ books or even of curry-house style food.
Myself, I like both home-style Indian and British-curryhouse Indian.
It's simply the case that the two are different, and if someone is looking for home-style recipes there's no point them buying a book full of British-curryhouse recipes and vice versa.
Likewise, where people want recipes for British-curryhouse, I would not usually direct them to this website but suggest some of the many websites and books specialising in this kind of cuisine.
I for one am not too fussy on Pat Chapmans recipes, most are very bland and if I'd have followed the cooking instructions for some then the sauces would be under cooked and rancid. Then again I don't like Indian takeaway food so maybe I'm the wrong person to be writing this. I really love home style Indian cooking, but you can keep your restaurant stuff.
I find most Restaurant meals don't compare to home cooked food no matter what style they are in ! The only real exceptions come when you have specialised ovens for things like chicken or naan bread and wood fired pizza ovens.
However its not impossible to do something equally as good at home and more often that not, you can create something much better at home as you have the time to do it !
Let me give an example ...A well known TV chef made a dish that you could cook along to recently in the space of about 20 minutes. Now it was probably a reasonable version but I know, you know, we all know that mincemeat cooked in a rush tends to be rather tough. My version of the same recipe takes more than 20 minutes just browning the onions to get the best flavour I can out of them ! The dish once finally left to simmer is cooked for a good 2 hours or more to make everything soft and tender. There are very few restaurants that could afford to put that much time into a dish that people might not order !
I too like the odd takeaway and a good restaurant meal but either their standards are dropping or I'm getting better at cooking at home as lately they don't seem to be as good as they used to be!
Steve
Err Kavey,
"I've been told by a few people that a majority of his recipes are really horrible".
"the rubbish that's served in restaurants I hate".
"most are very bland and if I'd have followed the cooking instructions for some then the sauces would be under cooked and rancid".
"Er.... WHERE has anyone claimed Pat Chapman's recipes or food is not good"???
Are the above positive?????
My point is simply there is a place for all types of Indian cookery, I have tried both and enjoyed both.
TC
Last year I purchased a cookbook that I highly recommend: "Cooking At Home With Pedatha" which is a southern Indian vegetarian cookbook that is also award winning. I bought mine from Amazon.com, but it is probably also available elsewhere.
The reason the OP posted was because she had HEARD things about Pat Chapman's recipes but was looking for alternative opinions here. What was posted about him elsewhere I won't take responsibility for but nothing rude about him nor his recipes had been posted here in response to her QUESTION.
By the way, the second and third two quotes hadn't been posted when I posted, unless you're expecting us to be psychic?
It appears I've hit a bit of a nerve here Kavey, you have imediately gone on the defensive, why?
A forum is to air ones views and opinons or is that not the case here on your Mother's site.
"By the way, the second and third two quotes hadn't been posted when I posted, unless you're expecting us to be psychic"?
By your own admission you had'nt seen these two postings which prompted mine yet you jump in with your comments to me.
Being psychic is not what a responsible contributor or administrator should need to suggest, just a poor argument.
By the way, enjoy your Mother's recipes and this site, shame it was spoiled by these remarks from you to me personally.
TC
TC, to be fair the third quote hadn't been posted when you started commenting, so it seems that even if Kavey isn't psychic, you are!
The original poster was asking for other opinions having been told that his recipes were bad. If you think they're good (or not) then it's great that you can share this, both with him and the rest of us.
Nobody actually said "the food is not good"; one person expressed their own dislike of BIR, and also asked for other people's feedback on comments he'd heard from others. Given that the book is in the BIR style, it seems highly relevant if someone doesn't like that style, far from being "not helpful".
How about we all calm down a litle? :-)
"How about we all calm down a litle? :-)"
Yes, please let's all calm down. We all have different tastes, let's just agree to disagree from time to time.
Mamta:-)
My point exactly.
But the comment,
"unless you're expecting us to be psychic"?
I found to be antagonistic and was not needed and the old adage of "Least said the better", in this case.
Now back to cooking good home and BIR style food.
TC
Apologies if you found my comment antagonistic but I found your first post inaccurate and also accusatory, I replied in same tone that I read in yours. If I misread yours, I apologise, but it did seem to be you jumped down throats for politely expressed questions/ opinions.
It is precisely because these forums are intended to allow discussion that the original poster came and asked for opinions. She (or he) referred to comments they had heard but wanted to get some direct feedback here rather than assume those comments were correct.
It seems that you are unhappy for people to share their opinions about Pat Chapman/ BIR cuisine if those opinions happen to be critical?
However, it's all down to what kind of cooking one prefers and is wanting. Any cookery book author out there has fans of his/her style/ books/ recipes as well as those who aren't keen at all.
Some here do not like BIR (is that British Indian Restaurant?) cooking and prefer home-style cooking, and if that's their preference, then it makes sense that a book designed to replicate BIR cooking is not for them.
However, others really love BIR and the Pat Chapman book may be just what they want.
It seems the OP hit a nerve with you by referring to criticism of Pat Chapman that they had heard elsewhere? I don't know what part of that original post was "not helpful" and the replies since then have simply expressed peoples' personal tastes for which styles of Indian they happen to like or not like, their findings, their opinions, their advice.
What is not helpful about that?
My original reply was not made because I was unhappy to hear critism of the books, merely to put the other side of the argument.
I do indeed have a few of his books and apart from the Balti recipes which do give good results for that style of cooking I have found others including those online to be better. Most not all can be complicated if followed to the letter with making different masalas and combining them to achieve the "authentic" taste but that is the nature of the beast he have promogated over the years with "The Curry Club" etc.
Havind said all of that, none of the recipes can be considered "horrible", just not to everyone taste maybe.
In short, are his books worth buying, yes, if you like BIR, (British Indian Restaurant), no if you do not like this style of Indian food.
Amen.
TC
Are there any particular books of his you'd recommend above others?
Any particular recipes within them to highlight?
Would you recommend the website you provided above or as well as the books?
THANKS
Without a doubt I personally would suggest looking at the website if it's the BIR style you're after, it's dedicated to that style alone and gives as much information and recipes you'll ever need to produce high quality takeaway and restaurant style curries.
The Balti book is in my opinion Pat Chapman's best book where he gives different styles and methods to produce them.
Another good site although to get it's full content a small one off payment is needed is wwwTheCurryHouse and again uses the base gravy/sauce to replicete among otheres BIR style curries.
Bruce Edwards is hailed as the originator of true home cooked BIR style Indian cookery,( a continuous argument between curry lovers rages as to where Pat Chapman gained his knowledge wherebeit self obtained or gleaned from others), although getting hold of his writings can be difficult, if memory serves me well there is a 4 part basic book he produced available on the Cro site.
Hope this helps.
TC
In my opinion, the only good book Pat Chapman has written is 'Taste of the Raj', it really is an excellent book. In the beginning he tells a story about the generations of his family who grew up and lived in India. It goes into great detail about the history of the Raj and it's rise and fall.
The book has some fantastic recipes, most of which are Anglo-Indian.
As for his other books, I've read about five others and I really wasn't impressed at all. One book was based on Indian restaurant cooking (of which I'm no fan) and the recipes were simple, bland, tasteless, and produced very poor results. The other books of his that I read seemed to contain recipes from some of his other books, only this time there was a slight variation to them.
I guess if you like Indian restaurant curries then the books may be worth a read, however, if restaurant curries are your thing then I believe there are websites available that have much better recipes than any of the Pat Chapman books I've read. The recipes from such websites produce much better results (or so I'm told).
Personally for me, I believe that the food you get in Indian restaurants is unhealthy and nothing like proper Indian cuisine. The restaurants have given people an interest in Indian cuisine but at the same time it's also given proper Indian food a bad name. People are concerned about hydronated fats, ghee, oil, salt, food colouring, additives, and flavour enhancers et cetera.
Hello, what an interesting discussion has been happening of late.
I have never heard of Pat Chapman or BIR, maybe that is because I live in the antipodies. Now I am curious and will no doubt look at this website with a open mind (but not so open that my brain falls out!).
I will always hold Mamta and her family for their efforts with this fantastic website in high esteem as her recipes remind me of the type of good old fashion home cooking my mum used to make.
How I wish I could turn back time and sit and watch my mum preparing the food instead of hightailing out of the kitchen as fast as I could as I had far more interesting things to do.
So thanks Mamta for teachng me how to make naan, chappatis, rogan josh, vindaloo, chicken curry and many more recipes reminiscent of darling mum.I am addicted to Indian food and to this site
Cheers
JL
Chapman's Indian Restaurant Cookbook was one of my first cookbook purchases, many years ago. It provided an interesting juxtaposition to my Indian mother's native Bengali cusine and produced hours of good-humoured argument between us. I thank him for that and also for the one superb method/recipe (for meat samosas)that has survived (unchanged)to this day in our kitchen, where my Danish wife recreates the most perfect samosa (though not the Bengali Singara) that I've ever eaten. The only problem is that these take the best part of a whole afternoon to do properly and is therefore only a bi-annual event!
I also used to make his 'Lamb Xacutti' (with minor modifications) for many years for friends and family (both English and Indian), who always complimented the dish for its 'home-made' quality as opposed to a restaurant curry. Of course, I never showed them the title of the book from which I'd taken the recipe :)
By the way, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Mamta for her erstwhile neighbour's Minced Meat Pickle recipe. I make it by the batch-loads and have untold takers for the many jars produced. The only change I make, is to increase the quantity of chillies used.
Hello Danbob
Thanks for your post. I haven't made that pickle for years! Please, please take a few good pictures naxt time and send them to me, with your full name, to post on the recipe :-).
Thanks
Well I have managed to retain 2 jars at the moment, one open and one un-opened, so I should be able to get something to you shortly. By the way, I've made it with and without mustard oil, both taste good but really quite different, with the latter hitting every Bengali taste bud that I possess.
I'm not too sure about Pat Chapman books to be honest. I have four in all. Some of the recipes turn out ok, although very mediocre at best. I think his emphasis is mainly on restaurant style Indian cuisine, not the proper Indian food that's served in most Indian homes.
Some of the recipes I've used from the book didn't turn out well at all.
My boyfriend decided a few weeks ago that he's surprise me by cooking a curry from Pat Chapman's Vegetable Curry Bible (or I think that's what it's called, don't quote me on it). He made a curry paste by following a recipe from that book, but the book didn't say how much oil or ghee should be used to fry the spice mixture. As a result he ended up using about 1-1/2 cups of vegetable oil (yeah, puke I know). What should have happened was that the oil should have seperated from the spice mixture once most of the water had been removed from the mixture, but it didn't ? even on a low heat with constant stirring for about 40 minutes.
That wasn't all.
The next stage in the cooking was to make a base-sauce by frying onions, ginger and garlic in ... yes you've guessed it ... more oil. I'm not talking about small portions here people, apparently this sauce can be made in advance and frozen for future use. He followd the recipe, and in all it used 4-1/2 ounces fresh ginger, 5 ounces of fresh garlic and 2-1/2 pounds of onion. I won't tell you how much oil (the recipe said to use ghee) was used.
The end result was a pan of what can only be described as gunk. And it was ruined because towards the end of the cooking time you're supposed to add the curry paste to the sauce ... which he did... It tasted bitter and horrible, and in future I'll avoid using his recipes.
I don't mind the occasional Indian take away, but I wouldn't eat it all the time. I do, however, enjoy 'proper' Indian food and I eat it all the time.
The outcome was a complete waste of money. I'm sure he's in cahoots with the spice companies or something.
Wow, that recipe sounds absolutely disgusting. I wont be trying his recipes now or in the future.Thanks for the tip....avoid as a health warning
JL
A couple of days back I made a mango chutney recipe from a pat chapman book and I followed the recipe exactly. The result was horrible. Even after cooking for over an hour and a half it tasted rancid - too much garlic in my opinion. I've had many bad results from following his recipes and now i'm convinced that the guy must be in cahoots with the spice companies or something. I have decided not to follow any more of his recipes because i am sick and tired of wasting food because most of the recipes of his that i have tried have never turned out.
i did a google search for 'pat chapman recipes are rubbish' and this site was at the top of the list.
Its fair to say that this site does come top of the google list if you search for the phrase you have given - However I must point out that its not because this site or its members are saying or have said that his recipes are rubbish ! - Google has picked up a thread the contains the words you have searched for but they are in different bits of the texts. The "pat chanpman" book is mentioned which is where google picks that part up from and then further on in the thread by a different person that doesn't even mention mr Chapman says "Proper Indian food is my favourite cusine but the rubbish that's served in restaurants I hate. " which is where google is picking up the word "rubbish" from !
Steve
Hello Jerrold
I agree totally with Steve AskCy here. None of us here ever rubbish any other person's recipes. I don't posses any of Pat Chapman?s books, but I have heard many nice things said about it on other threads.
You are most welcome to try our recipes, we are always willing to help and point you in the right direction
Mamta
I've got a number of Pat Chapman's books, to name but three. His "Indian Restaurant", his "Thai" and his "Balti".
The Balti one gives some fairly useful information about Balti style cooking including recipes he claims are actually from Baltistan (around Hunza, where Al Quaeda are so well installed). He doesn't really suggest that the cooking in Brit Balti houses is the same at all, so please don't try debunking exercises - I'm giving a very shortened overview.
After buying the Thai cookbook I regretted it. I've still got it, but can't say I've made a single recipe from it - however I could say the same of "Cuisine Gourmande" by Gu?rard (*** Michelin) and "La Nouvelle Cuisine" by Bocuse (*** as well).
On the other hand his "Indian Restaurant" cookbook gives recipes for many "Curry House" favourites, such as Rogan Josh etc etc. He would be the last to claim that it aimed to give recipes such as are made in homes up and down the subcontinent. However a number of the recipes give reasonable facsimiles of the dishes that have made "Indian" cooking so well loved in the UK. So - horses for courses. If you want real food as eaten by real people from the Indian subcontinent, then obviously Mamta's recipes are excellent, though there are many other very good resources on line as well. f you want to make your favourite dish from your local take-away then Pat Chapman's book will do that fine. There's one recipe particularly that he is the first to say is totally inauthentic, but which gives a tasty sauce that's excellent for reheating left overs.
Just for completeness. None of the recipes I've tried from his books give results that are "horrible".
ATB
Ian
Hi, I have 2 of his books, along with about 6 other Indian/Pakistani cookbooks. My opinion is there are much better recipes out there. All recipes I have tried from Pat's books turn out very disappointing, being thin on flavour and seem to require quite a bit of preparation/effort. Personally, for recipes with depth of flavour, I would use the ones on this site but if you do wish to buy a book, my stand-out favourite is 'Curry' Classic and Contemporary by Vivek Singh.
Hope this helps.
Personally I love Pat Chapmans books, but there again I have never tasted home Indian cooking!
Well Abacusman, this site is mostly about Indian home cooking. How about trying out a few recipes? It is never too late :-)
Mamta
I'm sure we are all agreed that there is Indian food, and there is something dished up in the name if Indian food, as found in 'Indian restaurants'. The two, for the most part, are totally different, IMHO, it is hard for me to compare the two. One is Indian, one is not.
This forum has been put together for family reasons, originally, and the initiator, Mamta, has graciously opened it up for all to sample and benefit.
If you don't want to learn and try Indian home-style cooking, there are so many other sites offering something else.
I say this having 40+ years experience of cooking real Indian food, but also I have sampled hundreds of so-called Indian restaurant offerings, including a city-wide comparison. There is no comparison, IMHO.
Pat Chapman seems to be popping up a lot on here. I have a few of his books and I used to use his recipes many years ago, then I started experimenting with different things and eventually found this website. I have not needed to use Pat Chapman books since. They just sit on the shelf gathering dust. I can't remember the last time I looked at one. The one Indian cook book that I look at from time to time is written by Lalita Ahmed, and as far as books go, I consider it the best one in my arsenal.
Sid
Well, if people want to try to replicate their favourite curry house dishes, why not? Eat the things you like.
Cooking at home, I started off with Madhur Jaffrey's first book in the 1980's, then discovered this site, and I've never looked back.
Here's how poor Indian restaurants in the UK can be: I was once in a bog-standard Indian restaurant in Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, not because I would have chosen it, but because I was going along with a crowd of people at a conference. Someone had ordered 'Rogan Josh', and was served a dish announced by the waiter as 'Dupiaza'. The customer pointed out that he had ordered the rogan josh. The waiter slipped the dish round the back of the customer and served exactly the same plate of food with his other hand, saying 'Here you are sir: dupiaza!' That says it all.
Then there's the macho syndrome of the 10 pints of lager on a Saturday night, folllowed by the hottest 'vindaloo' you can stomach. Oh dear.
But there are some good regional Indian restaurants in the UK; there used to be a fab Southern Indian restaurant in Newcastle, with a bilingual menu in English and Malayalam. They had a fantastic lamb dish from Kerala that I've since found a recipe for in a Madhur Jaffrey book.
By the way, if you think there are some rather indifferent Indian restaurants in the UK, you ought to avoid Indian restaurants here in France: they're utterly bland. Same goes for Chinese and Cambodian here.
Phil
Lalita Ahmed, now here is a name I haven't heard for a while. I never had her book, but did watch her on T-V a long time ago.
Dupyaza (I call it do-pyaza)story is funny, but bet it wasn't to the guy who had ordered it, if he knew his Rogan Josh. British Customer is a lot more discerning these days, and tends to know his curries.
Hottest curry; I have never understood the desire to be able to eat the hottest curry in a restaurant. As you say Phil, it must be a beer-Curry syndrome. There are more and more regional cuisine restaurants in UK, which serve better food. I guess most have to serve what the customer want, a vindaloo and oil rich curries.
I am glad that I am filling a gap in some small way for some of you.
Cheers!
PS I am trying out an Onion Paratha recipe tonight, from my nephew in India. If comes out well, I will share it with you all. I am planning to serve it with a Turnip curry made from freshly dug turnip this afternoon. I love turnips :-)!
Great minds think alike, Mamta. I just came on here to look for a turnip bhaji recipe and thought I would check out the forum while I was here. I have quite a few turnips growing in the garden and I want to use them up before they get stringy. I just made a batch of samosas and onion pakoras, and I didn't set the kitchen on fire this time!!
I have nothing personal against Pat Chapman or Indian takeaway food, but takeaway really isn't my thing. I am growing chocolate bhut jolokia and Dorset naga chillies this year. I like hot chillies but there is a limit to what I will eat. I asked an Indian chef (who lives and works in India) about the bhut jolokia and he said that the region where it comes from in North East India, the food is quite bland (I assume he meant it doesn't have many spices in it) and they dry the bhut jolokia and crush it into flakes to use sparingly on food. The chocolate bhut jolokia is said to be a natural variant of bhut jolokia, but the Indian guy I asked said he had never come across it in India.
Sid
just thought I'd say I am cooking Pandit rogan josh for tea tonight, with a fresh lot of hing, bought from a shop run by a Keralan guy who brought the stuff back from Kerala. Must say it smells wonderful, and is so simple, if you have the right ingredients!
I would say that rogan josh and dopyaz are virtually the same in most Indian restaurants, maybe more tomatoes in the rogan josh (which doesn't have toms in) and certainly not lychee, as I have seen on some menus!!!!
I have seen some waiters forking through a dish to ascertain what it is, before. Why don't they just serve it, and say nothing.
I was once in a TexMex restaurant near Boston, USA, where I ordered a beef something or other, and the guy next to me ordered the same in chicken. We were halfway through our mains when the guy next to me decided we had each others order. Says a lot about TexMex........
Sid, make some Turnip pickle; Turnip Pickle 1 or Turip pickle 2. Both are lovely.
Lapis, I just got a recipe for a Kashmiri lamb dish from India earlier this month. It is truly simple and my husband said it is delicious. I just have to write it down and upload the pictures. I have been busy getting over the jet lag (!) and catching up on the jungle in my garden. Simple is often beautiful :-)
Mamta, you are filling a LARGE gap in a BIG way!
Turnips in Indian food? That's a new one on me, but then, my ignorance knows no bounds. Apart from haggis, neeps and tatties on Burns Night, the only dish I use turnips (French navets) in is North African couscous.
Must investigate this turnip business.
Can't wait to stock up on Indian spices in Edinburgh next week: much, much cheaper than here in France. Shame the Kashmiri restaurant in Edinburgh closed down: it was good.
Phil
Thank you Phill. Yes, we do eat turnips in India and I love them. Make any of these below, they are all lovely. I have fresh ones growing in my garden and they are delicious.
Turnip and Turnip Greens Bhaji 1(Dry Curry)
Turnip and Turnip Greens Bhaji 2(Dry Curry)
Turnip Curry) (my favourite. I have some in the fridge, will probably have it later with my dinner!
Turnip Salad Grated turnips are nice with other dressings too, even a vinaigrette.
The turnip curry looks nice. I will give that a try in the next few days.
Sid
Loving turnips was looking in the supermarket earlier: ?2 a kilo! When I was a kid you probably paid ?2 a ton for them as cattle fodder. Criminal waste of such a great vegetable.
What are you doing walking around a supermarket, you should be resting LOL! I wonder if there are many Indian beetroot dishes?
Sid
Thanks Sid - but I find pushing a trolley round the supermarket the best physiotherapy for my new hip ,as I can adjust the weight I put on my leg accordingly. I threw my crutches away long ago as I was petrified of tripping over the damn things!
Winton, nice to hear that you are running around the supermarket. Are you driving too?
There are many Beetroot recipes in Indian cuisine, I have a few here. Search for beet on this site and you will find out. Beetroot leaves are also edible, like spinach. My favourite, which is a very acquired taste is Kaanji Ka Pani.
Google will also give you many Indian recipes for beetroot, including koftas. I make them with 50%50 mix of potatoes and Beet. You can make it with beet and courgette or beet and finely shredded cabbage etc. I don't think I have written the recipe down, perhaps one of you will, when you have made them? Pictures are mandatory ;-)!
Thanks, Mamta: can't wait to try these!
Grated turnip in vinaigrette: wow!
I'm struck by how sweet the turnip chunks are in the couscous.
Phil
Turnips are sweet: That is why Turnip and garlic bhaji is lovely, simple yet nice.
I made the turnip curry yesterday and it was really nice. Thanks for the recipe.