I can get the right texture and consistancy... but just no taste :(

My jars of spices are about 12 months old and say they are good till some time in 2007, yet I need to add about 8 tsp of coriander powder, 4 of garam masala just to get a little flavour -- I stress little.

Every dish I try ends up tasting the exact same.... Gritty, wattery, and flavourless.

pleas help lol :(

Hello Chris

Which dishes you have tried? It is difficult to say what you are doing wrong as a blanket answer. 12 month old jars of spices should be okay but they may have been lying around in the shop for a lot longer than that, depending upon where you got them.

I make my own Garam Masala, which is a lot more flavoursome. Readymade ones often have ?fillers?, and have less flavour than the 'true' garam masala ingredients.

Coriander powder should be okay, if you get it from a shop that shifts a lot of it, a busy Indian grocer. I often grind whole coriander seeds in a coffee grinder that I use just for spices. That way, I get the best flavour.

Why should a dish be a watery? Difficult to say unless I know what you are cooking and how, to what recipe!

I don?t know why your dishes should be gritty, I have never heard anyone say that before.

So Chris, you will have to give a few more details. We can work at them one at a time.

Mamta

lets start with flavour...... all the recipes are saying like

1/2 tsp garam masala

1/2 tsp cumin

1 tsp coriander

for like a 4 person dish

yet I need to add about 4 times that amount of spice.. and it doesnt taste of anything at all.... and tastes nothing remotely like something from a restaurant or even out a jar.

Hello Chris

You are still giving very vague information for me to work out what is going wrong! It is impossible to help you out from this limited information. Please say what you are cooking, which recipe you are following (steps) and what is the weight/quantity of the main ingredient? Only then will I be able to advice you on the amount of spices and what you are doing wrong.

Mamta

every and any recipe I follow lol.

for example.

4 onions, 4 cloves of garlic, and a couple of inches of fresh ginger.

pureed up and fried with chopped tomatoes to make a sauce.

800g of chicken, sauted with the spices in oil and then the sauce added.

about enough for 4 servings.

Hello Chris

Fry Onion, ginger and garlic in hot oil first. Then add tomatoes and spices. Fry until oil separates. Add only the spices given in the recipe (take any on this site) and stir-fry until oil begins to separate from the bulk, come off the pan. Add chicken, stir-fry until it is sealed. Turn heat to low and cook covered until chicken is done, stirring frequently to make sure it does not ?catch?. Chicken usually has enough water to cook nicely. If you need gravy, add water after you have sealed, perhaps 1 cup, and bring to boil. Turn heat down and cook before. Adjust salt seasoning at the end, add garam masala, amount specified in the recipe is for a fresh/good quality masala., stir and put lid on. Turn heat off.

Enjoy! I would recommend that you follow Basic Curry recipe in the first instance.

Mamta

I have followed a dozen recipes exactly like that.. word for word.

Every one is still the end result... a tasteless gravy.

thats what I am trying to explain.

:(

Chris

Personally I'd go buy some fresh spices; it could be the ones you've got have got stale, and they're pretty cheap to replace.

These 12 month old ! spices aren't the sort you get in one of those racks are they?... as they never taste of anything...

Go to a local market or an Indian grocery store and buy some nice shiny new fresh spices that should help for a start.

Then the watery'ness.. sounds like an error or something you are missing somewhere... Lets look at possible sources of water/juice in a curry. Normally it would be added with the use of a moist veg like tomato (I know technically its a fruit) but if you are using tinned tomatoes you might have a much higher water content (depending on brand). You might be using tomatoes and thinking its too dry and adding more water before they have time to release their juices? You could also be using other ingrendients that you have washed and left a lot of the water still on them ?... its difficult to guess what exactly you have or haven't done without going through every single step of making it..

As for gritty'ness thats usually down to not adding the spices and oil correctly... To add the spices you need to have oil in there to absorb them (like making any sort of flour based sauce) You need to have oil in there that will take the spices, then when you add stock/water/juice it all combines (don't forget a good stirring of the spices into the oil) into a thicker sauce.. Its also possible you are adding things like corriander seeds,cumin seeds, fennel seeds (anything that has a tough coat) and not giving them enough time to cook and soften down, so you get them appearing gritty in the sauce...

I know this will sound a bit clich?d but, you need to add 'love' into your cooking and enjoy doing it..don't panic and worry, relax and have fun browning the onions, knowing that the brown colouring is the carmalising of the sugars which adds more taste.. don't rush things and allow each stage to complete... once you've done it once and got a good result you will carry on doing it everytime...

(hope none of that sounds patronising but as mentioned its difficult to see/know what might be happening without seeing every single stage of what you do written down..)

Steve

Hi folks....

I got myself a nice batch of fresh spices from spicesofindia... as well as some lovely karahis :D

First of all I got the whole garam masala mix, whole coriander seeds etc.

I done my first batch of home made ground spice tonight before I started.

I heated the pan and added the spices in to the dry pan and heated for a few minutes till they were roasting up... but I wasnt getting any overwhelming smells coming off the pan? is this normal? I ground this up, but it didnt have the fantastic garam masala smell I was expecting, that I could smell out the bag of whole spices. It had a musky kind of smell. Maybe I roasted them too much?

I done the same with the coriander... although when I ground this up I got a lovely smell everywhere.

I then made up the mum's chicken curry recipe. I had to use doubles onions though to get enough volume of gravy liked by my family. Is this ok? I assume I just double up the amount of spices used?

End result... was a very lovely textured and coloured curry, although I needed to use 8 tablespoons oil to get things cooking. -- 8 table spoons of olive oil for 5 adult is acceptable though I think... olive oil is good for you ;)

I couldnt taste much from the garam masala mix I had prepared though, all I could really taste from the curry was a subtle coriander flavour. I am not sure if this was the goal of the dish? mamta?

Any other pointers folks ;)

thanks again.

Sounds like your getting on the right track...

A lot depends on how you cook the whole dish...I was shocked to find one of Mamta's dishes with very little in the way of spices had so much flavour bursting out of it when cooked ( Chicken Jalfrezi )where part of the flavour comes from the peppers and onions and part from the spices...

I've also found that different garlic adds more or less flavour (some fresh cloves are much more pungent than others, and some of the pur?ed versions are great and some might as well be flour and water as they have no taste at all)

I must admit though I never bother toasting my spices in a dry pan before hand, I tend to add them into the oil and allow them to heat in that. I feel (and we have talked about this and each to their own) that it lets its flavours out and into the oil so you don't lose anything...

Maybe you aren't being generous enough when adding spices?.. if it says 1 Tsp I tend to make sure its heaped up (and depending on what spice, I sometimes also give it a touch more as my taste buds like a little more.. although I tend to use a little less chili as I like to keep my skin in my mouth...)

i've been using these curry packs from a little shop thats opened up near me called the asian cookshop. I just go in and ask them what curry i want and how hot and they mix up the spices, garlic, onions and bits for me. I just have to add water and chicken and cook it. There really easy to do.

ive always found it hard to get the right amounts of spices to cook good curry, so this is a lifesaver for me! there worth a look if your near essex, they may be online but im not sure.

sounds like a great idea for a way to start making authentic curries when you are unsure or find it difficult to get all the spices etc..

Hey Chris, 8 tablespoon of oil for 5 adults is absolutely abnormal, not to mention unhealthy; unless of course if you are deep frying stuff. You seemed to have worked hard making your own spices and all. Okay here are some tips:

Add Onion, Garlic, Ginger etc, ONLY after the oil is hot. Add the vegetable/meat, saute it and then add the spices (except garam masala) and salt before any water comes out of the veggie/meat and stir well. You can add spices first and then the veggie/meat but I like adding them later. After the veggie/meat gets cooked. adjust again for spices/salt and cook some more.

Add the homemade Garam Masala only at the end, stir it once-twice and take off the fire. If you cook further, the garam-masala smell evaporates.

Olive Oil is not saturated fat... 8 tablespoons of oil divided by 5 adults is 1.6 tablespoons, which works out at 190 calories in oil (very little saturated fats)

Olive Oil is certainly not unhealthy for you, and has been shown actually reduces heart disease. For someone who takes the appropriate calories in a day, 2 tablespoons of olive oil per day has been shown to beneficial.

I think it's best not to use pre-mixed spices, and not to buy ground spices. Buy them all whole and grind them as you need them. That way, you'll get different tastes depending on what spices you use and in what quantities.

Whole spices also last longer than ground spices, which quickly lose their flavour.

Get the whole range: cinnamon, coriander, cumin, cardamom, whole dried chillis, fenugreek, black mustard seeds, fennel seeds, etc. You can tell immediately whether a dish has cardamom in it: it has a special taste all of its own. The same is true for fenugreek and for fennel seeds.

This is making me hungry! Good luck!

Phil

I had another disaster this week....

I made the basic sauce as before using onions, garlic and ginger etc.

There was just absolutely no taste in the sauce at all... just tasted of onion that has had all its flavour drawn out.. could not taste the spices at all.

How much spices should I use when I want enough gravy that 6 large onions provide?

Hello Chris

I am sorry to hear of your curry disaster yet again. You have bought new spices, so that is not the problem. I have to say that I am quite puzzled by your curry problems. Here are some thoughts;

Are you putting too much turmeric by any chance? It is a slightly bitter spice and too much of it will ruin the curry.

Are you burning the spices by adding them to very hot oil and cooking for too long, before adding main ingredients? You can avoid this by adding them after you have added tomatoes. Then stir fry until oil separates.

Are there not enough spices? I doubt this. Usually people make the error of putting too many spices in a dish, when they multiply the amounts in a recipe exactly to the amount they are cooking.

6 large onions of 200 gm. each will roughly need 6 level teaspoons of coriander, 1 1/2 level tsp. (not heaped or pressed) of turmeric, 1/2 -1 level tsp. chilli powder according to taste and 1/2 -1 level tsp. fresh garam masala at the end. Once the onuion/tomato/spice mix is frying well, you can taste and adjust, before you add your main ingredients.

I have to say that without seeing what you are doing, from your description, I am finding it a little difficult to say what is going wrong.

Perhaps others will have some suggestions?

Mamta

The Oil never seperates for me.... how many tbs of oil for that much onion and a full tin of blended tomatoes (400g)?

For one large onion of approximately 200-225 gm., I would use 2-3 tbs. oil generally. With meat/chicken dishes, once the dish is cooked, let it rest for 10-20 minutes to allow the fat to collect at the top and then skim excessive fat off the top with a spoon. These things have their own fat too and added to cooking oil, it sometimes gets too much.

I wonder if you are cooking your masala on too high a heat and burning the spices, loosing the flavour and taste!

When the 'masala is cooked/ready, it begins to come off the pan, with oil separating at the edges.

thanks for your help again... Im nowhere near ready to give up yet!

it would be good if some of you could take pictures during the actual cooking progres... i.e after the onions have been cooked, after the tomatoes are added, after the spices have been put on top, after the oil seperates etc.... a good visual guide would be so much use I think.

See message for Steven.

Mamta

Why are you using six large onions? Are you feeding a very large number of people?

Phil

Maybe thats part of the problem?.. it might be the size/weight of the ingredients being used. We see this when we are talking about our own recipes sometimes. What I call a 'medium sized' onion might be a 'tiny not worth using onion' in someplaces, or what I call a large onion might be small to someone else... (if you see what I mean)

I know if I go to our usual supermarket that the onions do tend to be just a little bigger than a cricket ball when they are in the height of the season and at this time of the year they are a little smaller. So if I called them large in the summer and told someone to use 3 large onions they might have onions like the ones sold in the grocers near my parents, where large is nearly as big as my head - This would obviously cause a major difference in taste and texture......

yes, i agree that 'big' and 'small' are relative terms. But SIX onions, of whatever size, seems rather a lot.

And there's the question of how cooked they are.

Chris: how are you cooking your onions, and to what point?

phil

Chris Miles

For 6 adult portions with enough gravy, 6 large onions seem just enoughs. We get the correct amount of gravy with this. I am maybe not scaling my cooking or oil enough ro go with it? This why some pictures would be a god send. So I can see exactly how much onions you guys are sticking in to fry at first, then how much oil and spices you are adding for that much gravy etc. :)

I cook the onions for about 20/30 mins.

this is the Jalfrazi recipe on this site (only I had red peppers not green)I don't normally do the onions and then clean the pan out but this recipe does it that way.

The meat in the spices

The onions with the peppers softening

fresh chopped tomatoes added

Meat cooking

The onion, pepper and tomatos that were cooked out at first added to the meat

Served

I know these aren't the best pictures and don't give measurements but I already had these hosted.

Steve

yeah you defo aint using as much onion as I have been lol..

thank you... shall try that recipe out this week :)

When you are beginning to cook, it is worth following the recipe ingredients and steps closely. I have tried many recipes on this site and have not found one that doesn't work

R

Chris

What recipe have you been following thus far?

Is it one from this site, one from a book you have bought or are you making it up yourself?

If it's the latter, I'd definitely suggest searching the site, finding a recipe that appeals and actually following it fairly rigidly in terms of how much of each ingredient to use.

Let us know how you get on.

Kavita

I followed a recipe last night from a cook book - the ashoka cookbook, which is a glasgow curry house with houses all over the uk now.

used just the amount of onions and tomatoes they suggested.. had a lovely texture.. but no rich spice aromas.. It only said to use a tea spoon of garam masala, a tea spoon of tumeric and a tea spoon of paprika. This was enough sauce for 3 portions (although it said 4-6 in the book).

when I get a curry out a curry house the aromas are litrally bursting out the container and out the bag as well but mine just taste of cooked vegetables with a little spice.

Try using some fresh corriander leaf in the curry sauce just before serving and possibly use extra garlic.. these two things seem to be heavily used in takeaway style curries..(cheap and lots of pungent aroma from them)

One teaspoon of garam masala and a bit of turmeric? That's not a good recipe. As others have said, find a recipe on this site, or from Madhur Jaffrey, and follow it slaveishly.

You need to get fresh, whole spices and grind them afresh each time.

Phil

Chris,

Given that none of us here even know the recipe you're following it's almost impossible for us to comment usefully on what might be going wrong for you.

Whilst we certainly have no problem with people using this board to discuss other sources for recipes and so on the board is essentially provided for Mamta's Kitchen users to discuss Mamta's Kitchen recipes as well as more general topics. Certainly if you are finding that the recipes from this Ashoka recipe book are simply not coming out well it would make more sense to contact the writers themselves to discuss the details.

In the meantime I suggest you pick a recipe or two from our site, follow it exactly and let us know whether you still have any problems with your results. Do keep in mind that our site is predominantly about authentic home-cooking Indian recipes and these are, in the main part, quite different to what one finds in Indian restaurants in the UK.

Kavita

I was taught to never substitute/alter the ingredients (i.e. ground cumin instead of whole), the timing of when to add the ingredients and never alter the amount of ingredients. Recipes have been tried and tested, handed down from parents, grand parents etc. I dont believe the recipe that Chris was following says to use 6 onions. Im not surprised he ran into trouble as he was basically wingin' it and probably making it up as he went along to cater for, as he said 6 portions instead of following the recipe, timing and amounts.

Cheers

Steve

I know NOTHING about all this, but I am amazed that anyone can find any spicy dish boringly bland - unless they have omitted ingredient or quantity - which is entirely up to taste.

Just for fun, I did one (not very Indian!) last night. Alright, I used a S**** S*** 'Penang Curry Mix' - which has Lime Leaves, Lemon Grass, Galangal etc. Needed using. 2 tsp for the 2 of us. We found it V nice!. I added Banana, Potato, Tomatoes, Onion, Coconut Milk & some left over Chicken Casserole jelly. Thought these photos might warm the cockles!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/photo04/c2600x450.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/photo04/c4600x450.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/photo04/c7600x450.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/photo04/c8600x450.jpg

= Tim

Mmmmmmmmm...! Looks nice Tim, apart from bananas! Just goes to show you can make a curry two thousand different ways, recipse are a guideline only.

Going back to Chris's not so tasty curry, I can't imagine why they (the restaurant) added no aromatic spices in their curry recipe book, I can't imagine a restaurant curry so blandly spiced. I find that even when you add the correct amount and number of spices as per your recipe, you have to taste and adjust them at the end or just before the end. Spices come from different sources, have different qualities and age and you need to adjust the amount according to your own taste. That is half the fun of cooking, I am sure you agree with me Tim. Your Chicken coconut is an example; use what you have/can lay your hands on ;-)!

I think of recipes as the final thing, if its any good. But what you say, Mamta, about the spices, is a very real fact, they can and do vary tremendously. And balancing the spice flavours is one area where a cook/chef really comes into their own. I know sometimes its a matter of taste, as for salt, or chilli heat, but other things have a slight leeway, would you not agree?

Hello Lapis

You are of course right about the necessity of sticking to recipe for many many dishes. They will go completely wrong if you chop and change, but I think you can play for most recipes and adjust them to your taste. That is why they become 'your' recipes and not something that has been cooked 100's of years, by many generations of people ;-)!

Mamta

as is often said, the devil is in the detail, in this case you may not be telling us the whole story.

Once the oil has been heated (medium heat), add the onion, diced into 3mm is what I use. Add the onion as soon as you have diced it. Now cook the onion on medium until nearly golden (certainly for N Indian dishes). This will take about 20 mins. Then throw in the minced garlic, then the fresh ginger and fresh chillies, if using. You will hopefully see that there is no water in the pan at any time, the water in the onion and the rest is driven off (as steam). If you see droplets of water in the pan, the pan/oil is not hot enough.

You can now add whole spices, or roughly ground garam masala spices, but be very careful not to burn them. The flavours from the spices will be extracted into the oil, as well as heat and colour from the chillies/peppers. Depending on your recipe, you could add the meat, and brown a little, or other spices, or water based ingredients, like yoghurt and tomatoes.

Whatever the recipe, one usually ends up with a spicy mix of water and oil. As Mamta says, is you continue to cook this mix (to combine flavours and make new ones) the water content reduces and the bubbles of steam become smaller. When you see little 'lakes' of oil, this is the time to stop heating. If the meat/veg is not cooked to your liking, you can add more water, and repeat the process. The important point is to end with an 'emulsion' of oil and water, which produces the best tasting experience. Most of the flavour is, in fact, in the oil, but that oil has now combined with the water.

Hope that helps.