Mamta's Kitchen - A Family Cookbook





green & brown cardamom

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On 24/11/2010 06:11pm, sid wrote:

lapis can you tell me if green and brown cardamoms are related in anyway? i assume they are but do they contain the same chemicals? thanks

sid

On 24/11/2010 08:11pm, Winton wrote:

All 'true' cardamons, green, brown and black should be from the same plant 'elettaria cardamomum' the colour depending on how ripe the fruits are when picked.

By 'true' cardamoms there are then 'false' ones with similar flavour, some closer related botanically than others. Am sure Lapis will explain this better.

Would it not be easier if all suppliers were forced to put the botanical names on packets so consumers could identify what we are actually buying!

Winton

On 25/11/2010 03:11am, Lapis wrote:

Winton,

what are you on about, true and false cardamom?

In Indian cooking, there are two types of cardamom, the green, and the brown or black. Both belong to the botanical family Zingiberaceae

The ginger family contains several important medical plants. 1500 species, typically tropical perennials, often with large rhizomes. Essential oils are common, consisting both of terpenoids and phenylpropanoids.

Common ones are:

Aframomum melegueta (Grains of paradise)

Alpinia galanga (Greater galanga)

Amomum subulatum (Black Cardamom)

Curcuma longa (Turmeric)

Curcuma zedoaria (Zedoary)

Elettaria cardamomum (Green cardamom)

Kaempferia galanga (Lesser galanga)

Zingiber officinale (Ginger)

The brown/black cardamom is said to contain cineol (also known as eucalyptol, yes, that one) camphor and limonene, obviously smelling of lemons, and other substances. It also has a smokey smell/flavour, from the traditional drying process over open fires, although some I bought from China were softer, and less smokey.

The green cardamom is said to contain α-terpineol 45%, myrcene 27%, limonene 8%, menthone 6%, β-phellandrene 3%, 1,8-cineol 2%, sabinene 2% and heptane 2%. (Phytochemistry, 26, 207, 1987) although other sources say it contains mostly cineol, with which I would tend to agree, using my own olfactory organ.

I have sampled all of the above spices, of note is grains of paradise, which I've tracked down in African shops, and is like spicy pepper, though looking like brown cardamom seeds, the pods are virtually identical.

HTH

On 25/11/2010 05:11am, Mamta wrote:

Hello sid

Green cardamoms have a gentler flavour, more suitable to dessert or dishes where a gentle flavour is required. Brown cardamoms have a different, perhaps slightly too strong a flavour for desserts and are generally used in savoury dishes.

Mamta

On 25/11/2010 09:11am, Rajneesh wrote:

They have entirely different taste / aroma. Brown may not be suitable for desserts, but green goes very well with halwa, kheer etc.

On 25/11/2010 12:11pm, azelias kitchen wrote:

how interest...to read.

On 26/11/2010 09:11am, azelias kitchen wrote:

wanted to let you know that last night I was searching tamarind and looking through a spice book of mine..which is not very good but it does contain photos at least.

..anyway looked up the page of cardamom and it had the green and brown cardamom and it states in the book under brown cardamom "Not True Cardamom", it doesn't say why that's all it says. The book is called Spices by Jill Norman and is a bit old now.

I haven't investigated further in other books to see if they too state this sort of statment...but when I have 5mins I will...

On 26/11/2010 01:11pm, Lapis wrote:

I have a copy of that book somewhere, but all books (except for Madhur Jaffrey!) have mistakes. I think this is just an old idea, the green and brown are quite different in many respects, culinary and botanically, but then, so are black cumin and ordinary cumin, bay and cassia leaves, cassia and cinnamon, I don't think you would call one 'false', except saffron, maybe, where it is substituted by safflower, in less scrupulous countries! Beware buying cheap saffron anywhere!

On 26/11/2010 02:11pm, azelias kitchen wrote:

yes anything cheap - they may very well be a good reason for it!

that goes for vanilla pods, not that you can buy a false one but that they differ in quality and intensity.

isn't that book frustrating...the lack of information.

On 26/11/2010 08:11pm, Lapis wrote:

you may like this site then, very well respected botanically and culinary. I have exchanged emails with him, but you may have to wait a while.

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/index.html

On 26/11/2010 10:11pm, oddies wrote:

Lapis what a fantastic link you gave, Thanks

On 26/11/2010 10:11pm, azelias kitchen wrote:

just has a quick look Lapis...looks like a great source thanks very much for the link. :-)

On 27/11/2010 08:11am, Mamta wrote:

I have bought cheap saffron once, years ago in SPAIN. It was something else, dyed orange!

Gernot Katzer's site is very good, I have it amongst my favourites.

On 27/11/2010 02:11pm, Lapis wrote:

Spanish saffron is probably what we find in the UK, and the proper stuff in good. I found some Kashmiri saffron in an Indian supermarket in Bangalore, but no-one was serving on that counter!! Too expensive for locals, I imagine, Rs40 a gramme!

It is quite easy to tell safflower, it has no smell, it looks slightly bluey/red, but most obvious is that the stamens are clumped together, as it is from the thistle family. Needless to say it is useless, except for a (non-fragrant) garnish.

On 17/12/2010 02:12pm, sid wrote:

i was reading in a cookery book many years ago that there are 3 types of cardamom. there is green and brown/large that are used in indian cookery and aparently there is a rare white one that is used in thai cuisine from time to time. i know that sometimes you can come across white cardamom pods that are just aged green ones of green ones that have been treated with something to turn them white. has anyone ever heard of this other so called rare white cardmaom??

dont quote me on it but i think i may have read it in a pat chapman cook book.

sid

On 17/12/2010 04:12pm, Lapis wrote:

I have seen white cardamom, but they were only sun-bleached green ones, and of no particular value, save for use in 'white Indian cuisine'.

I'm afraid Pat Chapman books are nothing to do with Indian cooking, IMHO.

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