Mamta's Kitchen - A Family Cookbook





Authentic Vindaloo

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On 13/08/2007 08:08pm, AskCy wrote:

I mentioned on another thread that I've been watching a new series with Gary Rhodes being taught about real Indian cookery (and a jolly good watch it is to).

He was shown "Vindaloo" (made with Pork) and it was explained that it was brought to India by the Portuguese. The word vindaloo is made up from their words for vinegar (vinagre) and garlic (alho) shortening them into vin'alho.

He then made it with several chillies but it didn't make it very hot at all, just gave it a lovely red colour and if you prefer yours a little milder (as he did) he added some potato to soak up some of the heat. It was also suggested that the vinegar helped cut through the fat of the pork meat so maybe in its original form it would always have been for fatty cuts of meat?

Seems a far cry from the fire and brimstone that we see in takeaways around the UK (which tend to be a test of how manly the local drunks are, rather than a fine balance of flavours and a beautifully cooked dish)

Steve

On 13/08/2007 08:08pm, AskCy wrote:

and of course I know search for the recipe on Mamtas Kitchen and find almost the exact same background story (in fact a little better in detail) and a very similar recipe. I just wanted to share this little snippet of info as I love to know about the origins of things.

Vindaloo

Steve

On 13/08/2007 08:08pm, Caroline wrote:

The Portugese took it to Goa where it is almost their national dish but tastes different in whichever restaurant you ordered it - from fiery hot to only just hot. I recently spend some time on the UKtv website reading all the recipes and looking at all the photos from the series as I am unable to watch it where I live.

On 13/08/2007 08:08pm, AskCy wrote:

Its a good series but I feel that Gary Rhodes will be picking places he's willing to eat/stay/cook at and so will be in the bigger/better/more expensive places and not getting to see some of the real cooking. He tends to send his "helpers" (trainee's that he has taken with him to learn the trade) to look at the markets and see the temples and such, which is a great shame as he would see more and be able to gain more from it, if he went in person.

On 14/08/2007 01:08am, Waaza wrote:

Steve,

I understand that it was originally for a fatty cut of meat. As the pukka vindaloo is a stew (cooked with plenty of water covering the meat which is cut into small chunks), it allows the cook to scoop off the excess fat that has been rendered down, if desired. However, most of the flavour from the spices will be in the fat, so beware! I believe the original recipe (vin d'alhous) is still extant in Portugal.

cheers

Waaza

On 14/08/2007 11:08am, Phil wrote:

Yes, the Portuguese etymology sounds convincing, so the 'aloo' bit isn;t to be confused with the word for 'potato' in some Indian recipes.

For us, it's basically a hot and sour dish, so the vinegar is essential.

And it's a far cry from the over-hot dish served to lager louts engaging in a macho competition to see who can eat the hottest curry on a Saturday night!

Phil

On 14/08/2007 05:08pm, AskCy wrote:

I must admit I once did the vindaloo thing in my younger days on the way home from the watering hole. I only did it once mind you and thats when I realised that there was no need for excessive heat and the joy was actually in the flavours and textures.

The (long) story (cut short) goes like this... I wander in and ask what the hottest curry they do is? He tells me the Vindaloo... I politely (I was polite not a drunken hooligan) suggest its not hot enough, is that as hot as they go?.. So he makes me a Chicken Vindaloo.. lets put it this way... I had to pick the chicken out of the sauce, rub the sauce off as much as I could without making it obvious and then I was still in pain for hours after... The sauce could have been used to cut through sheet steel.... never again have I bothered with heat in things...

Steve

On 14/08/2007 05:08pm, Caroline wrote:

In some of the books I have it says that the word vindaloo or vendaloo comes from the words vinegar and potatoes and some do actually contain potatoes. There was a discussion on another board where nobody could agree where it came from so all agreed to disagree!!!

On 14/08/2007 07:08pm, AskCy wrote:

I think its been well documented that it came from Portuguese origins and the words in Portuguese are for vinegar and garlic.

I suppose the obvious point would be if "Aloo" is potato, is "vind" vinegar in the same language ?

Steve

On 15/08/2007 04:08pm, Caroline wrote:

I didn't say "I" was disputing it - I stated earlier that the Portugese took it to Goa and those were the meanings in Portugese. I merely stated that there is dispute between people about the meaning and it and it is not set in stone.

On 15/08/2007 07:08pm, AskCy wrote:

I was just giving the responce to those that think its for potato... lol

Steve

On 16/08/2007 06:08pm, Phil wrote:

By the way, what Indian languages have an 'aloo'-type word for 'potato'? Are they the Indo-European languages of the North of the Indian subcontinent, or the Dravidian languages of the south? I suspect the former, and this would have some bearing on the matter of the etymology.

Cheers

Phil

On 17/08/2007 06:08pm, Caroline wrote:

Hi Phil - tongue in cheek - the etymology from www.missvickie.com - this site has brilliant pressure cooking timings etc for chickpeas, lentils, beans etc - no kitchen should be without a pressure cooker whether in India, Spain or on the moon.

Vindaloo, in Hindi means "meat" (vinde) and "potatoes" (aloo)

Vinha d'atho in Portugese means "wine vinegar with garlic" 2 key ingredients in many popular Portugese recipes.

No further correspondence will be entered into - LOL - unless it is about pressure cookers.

Cheers - Caroline

On 20/08/2007 02:08pm, Mamta wrote:

Read this interesting thread, carry on!

Aloo is a Hindi word for Potato and predates English rule in India :-)!

Mamta

On 20/08/2007 04:08pm, Waaza wrote:

this one is nothing to do with the Brits ;?)

firmly at the feet of the Portuguese, who predated the potato in India (and probably brought it to India, along with chillies and tomatoes).

Can't see that vinde is a Hindi word for meat, usually its gosht, gosta, mamsa, manso, maans, and rarely boti, chickna, sagoti, khana, ahara.

Think miss vicky is making it up; there are so many Portuguese dishes adapted by India, and still called by their original names, why should vin d'alous be so different?

cheers

Waaza

On 21/08/2007 10:08am, Mamta wrote:

Vindaloo may is from Portugal, but Aaloo is most definitely a Hindi word and predates Portugese in Goa or anyone else in India!

Mamta

On 21/08/2007 10:08am, AskCy wrote:

How wonderful is the World of food, its not just the dish on the plate, its a whole History of life and culture. :-)

Steve

On 21/08/2007 05:08pm, Phil wrote:

Dear all,

It's surely not very likely that a Goan dish would contain a word from Hindi, which is not one of the Dravidian languages of the Indian subcontinent. The Portuguese etymology is overwhelmingly the most likely.

Steve, we're not looking for a word of the sort 'dalho': if the Portuguese etymology is correct, the 'd' part will be from Portuguese, parallel to 'd'ail' (roughly, 'of garlic', in French). We're looking for a word of the sort 'alho', meaning 'garlic', and I think you're unlikely to find such a word, either in the Northern or Southern Indian languages.

Cheers

On 21/08/2007 05:08pm, Phil wrote:

Just one last thing: there is no Portuguese word 'atho', with a , meaning 'garlic'. There is very probably a Portuguese word 'alho', where the digraph denotes what we phoneticians call a 'palatal l'. This can be checked in a Portuguese dictionary. It's cognate with French 'ail'. It's from Vulgar Latin, or Proto-Romance, no doubt.

The fact that there is a Hindi word for 'potato' which looks like a version of 'alho' is a red herring in this discussion.

Happy cooking, folks!

Cheers

Phil

On 21/08/2007 07:08pm, AskCy wrote:

Cor blimey Phil thats some in depth knowledge you have there !

(ps I looked up the word 'garlic' in a Portuguese online dictionairy, thats how I got my version)

Steve

On 22/08/2007 12:08pm, Phil wrote:

Steve, your Portuguese dictionary was fine; it's just that the 'd' part of 'd'alho' is a separate unit. It's like the French phrase 'chanson d'amour' (love song), where the word for love is 'amour', not 'd'amour'.

Perhaps I should own up to being a professor of linguistics!

Cheers

Phil

On 22/08/2007 07:08pm, AskCy wrote:

I like any shape of pasta, didn't know you could become a proffessor in it. :-)

On 24/08/2007 10:08am, Phil wrote:

Professor of Linguini sounds like an attractive alternative career!

On 31/08/2007 06:08pm, Sharon wrote:

My Dad is a Portuguese and Mom is a Goan. I would like to clarify a few things.

My family has always told me that it is Vin d'alho and Vin stands for vinegar and alho stands for garlic. Goans could not pronounce it so they made it Vindaloo like so many other words of Portuguese origin. Fair enough! Also, most of the Portguese Goan dishes base is vinegar (vinagre) and garlic (alho). I am a professional Executive Chef in the USA.

Also, the Vin d'alho (Vindaloo) recipe on the internet is a variation on the origin. I personally like different takes on authentic recipes. I would like to quote Shakespeare "What's in a name, a rose called by any name smells the same". So Vin d'alho or Vindaloo is basically a spice blend of vinegar and garlic. So do not argue about any damn name. Learn to love, enjoy and live!!!!!

On 31/08/2007 08:08pm, Mamta wrote:

Thank you for clarifying it Sharon, you are quite right of course.

This is the introduction on my Vindaloo recipe here; "This is one of the most loved Indian curries in UK. All Indian restaurants have it on their menu. It is a Portuguese influenced dish from Goa, in India. Traditionally, it was not meant to be hot. It originally contained pork, potatoes, (aloo) and vinegar (Vin), hence the name. However, as most curry house chefs in UK were Muslims, mainly Bangladeshis, they did not eat pork. They replaced the pork with beef and/or chicken. These days, you don?t see pork Vindaloo at all in UK. Present day UK Vindaloo contains beef or chicken and it sometimes has chopped potatoes.

Another story about its name, which seems more feasible to me, is that ?vin? stands for vinegar and ?alho? is garlic in Portuguese. So, it is a pork dish made with vinegar and lots of garlic. The term Vindaloo in present day Indian restaurants in UK simply means 'a very hot curry that brings tears to your eyes'! Hotter the better for some!" Serves 4

On 15/04/2008 04:04am, SteveAUS wrote:

Hi - glad I found this site. Its very good.

Being from England (moved here when I was 21)...I was one of those louts you were referring to who would be found in their favourite Indian restaurant after a night out on the town (I was actually well behaved). Anyway since leaving England my love of Indian food has grown. Ive been to night school to learn Indian cooking, I have my favourite restaurant that I go to, I cook Indian at least twice a week at home. My wife is now an Indian food convert now that she has been educated that it not all HOT food.

The Rhodes across India show is currently on here in Australia. Its quite a good show. Not too keen on rhodes in particular he is forever interupting and talking over the actual chef that is showing what to do. I have tried a few of his recipes from the show with great success apart from the Vindaloo. I used chicken instead of pork. I was quite disappointed. The dish was nice in itself...it wasnt half as hot as I prefer. I had it in my head that I was going to re-create the chicken vindaloo from my favourite restaurant here. Silly really hey? Im used to the thick brown creamy sauce (which I still cant master - any hints?).

Anyway just thought Id say hello after browsing some of the threads in the forum. Look forward to reading and learning some more

Cheers

Steve

On 15/04/2008 04:04am, SteveAUS wrote:

p.s. Im now 39...not the 21 year old well behaved lout. Just thought I'd mention that! lol

On 15/04/2008 07:04am, Mamta wrote:

Hello SteveAUS

Nice to hear from you. This site is based in UK, as you might have gathered. I am glad you like the recipes here. My recipes are not too hot generally, because I feel that too many chillies spoil the taste of main ingredients and take away from flavour of spices. However, if you like the food hot, you can adjust chillies.

Have you tried Vindaloo here?

To make gravy creamy, you can do following;

Grind the onions after deep frying

Use pureed tomatoes.

Add a little besan or chickpea flower when frying the masala/gravy.

Add a little ground almonds/cashews. Not many restaurants do this, because it is expensive.

Add thick yoghurt or cream at the end.

Some people even add a little gravy granules, either chicken or meat, depending on what you are cooking.

Look forward to seeing you here.

Where in Australia are you from? I have been there twice, lovely conutry :-)!

Mamta

On 15/04/2008 11:04am, Lapis wrote:

remember that a vindaloo is essentially a stew, so it would not have thickening agents added. However, after cooking the meat (pork is best as it can have a strong taste, but chicken is easily overpowered by the spices used, I suppose stewing beef could be used at a pinch, or roo in your part of the world, Kangaroo vindaloo, kind of made for each other!).

To thicken the gravy, all you have to do is remove the meat, and turn the heat up a little. You will see that the liquid starts to boil with largish bubbles. Continue with the heating, and you will see the bubbles get smaller and smaller, now turn down the heat a little, as you are near to the optimum when the water and oil parts combine (with the help of starches from the spices and emulsifiers from the chillies) to form a thickend gravy. If you go too far, and the gravy looks a little too oily, add some more water, and repeat. You will soon get the hang of it.

Hope that helps.

On 16/04/2008 01:04am, SteveAUS wrote:

Thanks for the welcome and tips Mamta and Lapis.

I totally agree that its a balancing act when cooking with spices. My wife prefers milder dishes so I believe ive mastered the balance of still being able to taste the ingredients in those dishes. Every now and then I treat myself to a hot vindaloo and its this that I still need to master i.e. the balance between hot and still being able to taste the meat/ingredients (if you know what I mean). Anyway look forward to sticking around and trying some of the recipes on this site and reading the forum

Cheers

Steve

P.S...Mamta im in Canberra

On 16/04/2008 02:04am, Lapis wrote:

a tip when making vindaloo is to ensure that the chillies are cooked for some time in oil, before adding the water. This extracts the hotness from the chillies, and distributes it throughout the dish. When you eat it, you get a warm glow all over your whole mouth, rather than pockets of pain. Dried chillies are better than fresh ones in this dish, IMHO.

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