The last two curries that I made I thought I would try and add the powdered GM at the start, into the hot oil just prior to adding in the grated onions. What I have noticed with this is that the end result is not as strong as I am used to when I add the GM towards the end.

I don't use any cheap fillers in my GM, it just contains mace, nutmeg, cassia, cloves brown cardamoms and now a few green cardamoms also. I have been grinding the pepper fresh as and when for the last six months.

I asked an Indian chef if he had ever heard of adding powdered GM at the beginning of a dish, and this was his reply to me:

In Garam Masala the quality of each spice is to lend a flavour, taste, digestive qualities and coolant qualities to the end product. The Cumin and Coriander today's date in commercial world is used as fillers however if they are used in normal quantity they provide the body to the Garam Masala and also extend their cooling qualities to the end product.

Garam Masala powder is always used in the last as you need to retain the flavour. There are various blends for various dishes across the country. It is never used in oil before as it would burn and lend a burnt flavour to the end product.

Garam Masala preferably roasted at lower temperature to activate the essential oils so that the flavour extracted is maximum. The temp should be 60-70 F.

The last two curries that I made I thought I would try and add the powdered GM at the start, into the hot oil just prior to adding in the grated onions. What I have noticed with this is that the end result is not as strong as I am used to when I add the GM towards the end.

This the learnt wisdom over the years, if not centuries, of most Indians; house wives, home cooks (not called chefs)and professional cooks in India. Everyone, and I mean everyone, that I know within my huge, extended family and friends over there and the cooks that I have come in contact with, use whole Garam Masala ingredients in the beginning, adding to the hot oil, and ground one at the end, sprinkled on top, generally when heat has been turned off already or turned off immediately after. This is the way my grandmothers did it and then my mum did it.

So, I would agree with most of what has been said. I add whole spices like cardamoms, green and/or brown, cassia (or cinnamon), cloves, black peppers and bay leave to hot oil, along with cumin or mustard or other tempering seeds that I may be using. But I always add ground garam masala at the end, like most Indian do; add and cover the lid add the end and allow the flavours to infuse. I don't normally have coriander or cumin in my garam masala as fillers; both these spices have usually been already added along with other spices, cumin in tempering at the start and coriander with the other spices.

The Indian chef you talked with is absolutely right. Spices are there in a dish for a reason for example, asafoetida and cumin seed tempering to all dals/lentil/beans makes them easier to digest and reduces the flatulent effect of these. Unlike you, I have not had any professional cooking training, just learnt things from people all around me and then developed it further from reading, watching and a lot of eating LOL!

I can understand that everyone has their own little way of doing things, but I get better results by adding the GM at, or very near to, the end of cooking a curry. I always add whole garam spices at the start though. Incidentally, the guy who told me this is a professional chef, living and working in India.

Sid.

And you and your friend are both right sid, as I just agreed and explained :-).

and what result do you think you would get if you added raw onion at the end of cooking, or meat, or any other ingredient?

I actually like raw onion in some dishes a few minutes before serving so you get a contrasting crunchy onion...

Steve

so you get a completely different result depending on whether the onion is cooked or is raw....................

What I don't understand is that some people say to add powdered GM an the start of a dish, and as we know, a lot of the flavour is lost into the atmosphere. But if we add it at the end we don't get the true flavour from it, so maybe we shouldn't add it at all LOL? Personally I get best results from adding it at the end. Whether science has a theory about it or not, I notice the difference and it sits very well with me. I'll let my taste buds be the judge on this one!

I think it just comes down to personal tastes and preference at the end of the day.

Sid

I can also understand what Lapis is saying here. You get different results depending on what you are using and how you use it. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I hope so!

Sid

I actually like raw onion in some dishes a few minutes before serving so you get a contrasting crunchy onion...

Some dishes don?t taste the same without raw onions on top, things like Chickpea Masala and many other spicy Chaat dishes.

?and what result do you think you would get if you added raw onion at the end of cooking,?

Some will taste quite nice, especially dry bhajies or very spicy curries. Some restaurants in India do add a garnish of thinly sliced onions, finely chopped tomatoes, along with chopped coriander to some of their dishes, depending upon how expensive these things are at that time of the year.

Twice in last 5 years, there have been huge shortages of Onions in India due to failed crops. They became so expensive that most restaurants were cooking all their food (curries!) without onions. There were none available for garnish!

Sid, you don't say which dishes you were making, but I would make these general observations.

To obtain full flavour from your spices, it is necessary to extract the flavour chemicals into the oil. If you don't they will not dissolve in the water to any extent, and the overall flavour will be weaker.

The flavour chemicals are also important as raw materials to make other flavours. These combine with other ingredients to form a much broader spectrum of flavours, not just the original flavours. This is one of the processes that happens when we cook. Same with onions and garlic (and hing). The sulphur compounds in those ingredients are used in reactions making new, deeply flavoured compounds, not formed if the onions/garlic are not present. It must be understood that flavours change when cooking, and are affected by cooking temperatures and times, even the acidity level makes a big difference.

The spices in gm are among the most potent in our arsenal, and their flavour chemicals enter into a huge number of reactions, giving a complex result.

If your result was lacking flavour, it could be for several reasons. If you added just before the onions, it could be that the onions contained too much water, so the temperature was not high enough for efficient extraction. Try adding the gm after the onions have turned golden, prior to adding meat. Then, as you mentioned, some of the flavours are lost to the kitchen atmosphere, if your kitchen smells of wonderful cooking aromas, they aren't in your food!

Loss is much greater if a lid is not used, and keep the temperatures below boiling if the dish contains water. Losses from essential oils occur from bubble bursts sending aerosols into the atmosphere, much like salt from waves at the seaside.

Finally, if you add gm at the end of cooking, all you get is the raw spice flavour. If this is good, then why not add all the spices at the end, in fact, why add spices at all, just put the spice dabba on the table, and let your guests help themselves?

Finally, if you add gm at the end of cooking, all you get is the raw spice flavour. If this is good, then why not add all the spices at the end, in fact, why add spices at all, just put the spice dabba on the table, and let your guests help themselves? <-- That put a smile on my face, thanks x

From time to time I have added garam masala powder when the onions have turned golden, and that works. However, when I added it at the oil stage prior to adding the onions, I noticed a big loss in flavour.

Thanks for your wisdom.

Sid

'roasting' (is it really roasting?) gm will only affect the outcome if it contains cheap fillers, like coriander and cumin. If the gm contains the proper ingredients, there is no change in flavour, but some of the essential oils/flavour chemicals will be lost to the environment.

The resoan coriander and cumin (and fenugreek/methi) is heated is to make roast/nutty flavour compounds which may be lacking in the final dish, like kormas or vindaloos.